| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
   |
Posted - 2007.06.20 10:52:00 -
[1]
Get rid of all pre-requisites for thermodynamics. Heat is comedically useless enough, and invades the UI so much, that it needs to be available to everyone.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 12:10:00 -
[2]
Heat is not some overpowering advantage and I don't know why people keep acting like it is. It's a crappy game mechanic cheated out of it's only real audience (younger players) by skill requirements which compete directly with far far more useful and applicable skills rather then some "get out of danger maybe..occasionally..please?" skill.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 12:32:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: coldplasma
Personally, I would benefit infinitely more by training better guns and better ships than an overrated skill. Your heat won't save you when I'm pounding on your battleship with a vagabond with T2 guns.
Exactly. The entire point of Heat as CCP were selling it was to give an advantage to newer players so they could roll the dice and take a chance to try and get out of a tight situation.
It's pretty laughable that this will ever happen with module burn outs after 3-4 cycles, but all I see in this thread is a bunch of vets going "lol stupid newbs how dare they!"
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 13:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Zeko Rena
Quote:
Make it level 2 so that people will continue not training up this vital skill so they are easier to kill.
Good point 
Normally I hate statements like this (lame factor) but this actually summarizes another contention I have with the skill tree operating like this: it removes a decision.
Eventually, EM 5 is good to get because it's incredibly useful (proportional though, to how much cap the ship you're flying has absolute - so, better for BS's/capitals). Whether you want that advantage is a decision that should be in the void - because it serves as an important decision on how best to skill train.
Tying a feature which may or may not be useful to it removes this - because there's no question about training it, everyone will - somewhat like learning skills.
Now, I think Heat is pretty useless the higher your SP gets because it's entirely chance based. However, let people make that decision. Don't guide them straight into it.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 15:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sapphrine
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Indiria Fuentes
The op and people thinking like that are simply anoying!
I¦m a younger player (playing since end of jan 07) but have already trained the prereqs for heat as cap-skills are almost mandatory imho (at least as Gallente, should be even more as Amarr i would suppose).
Why can¦t people simply accept the concept of the game? Why do they start to whine to make things easier, quicker, blahhh, blahhh...
the whine-level in the last weeks is annoying and disgusting!
I hope CCP does not respond to all this whinage and keeps things as they are. Don¦t fix what¦s not broken!
regards
Indiria
Yeah it is annoying when people don't think like you isn't it? It is a harsh world in which we live in.
Suck it up buttercup.
glad to see when people disagree with you and your 'reasonable' point you hold your head up high and stick to your guns instead of degenerating this into a slagging match. I had more respect for you earlier on when you almost seemed constructive. Now you're clearly just a whiner annoyed that people wont follow your nerf request.
Just set the skill training if you care about it.
People don't, but you might be surprised to learn they do care about the game. In every capacity, heat has failed to deliver anything.
And it's hardly him whining - you might notice how the post above it is nothing but "my poorly planned skill training back bone!"
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 15:15:00 -
[6]
Depending what you're doing you just don't need energy management. Dare I say a sniper battleship is somewhat unlikely to run out of cap before it's either destroyed or its target dies etc. etc.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 15:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Na'Kunni
Energy Management, as I keep saying, but nooo everyone thinks you should use that extra time training just for the extra 5% cap that a cap recharger/power relay can do, but your saying any respectable pilot should have energy managment 5 is rather crazy.
Any respectable pilot should be carrying a Capacitor Booster. Simple as that, you don't need that extra 5% cap/4% recharge.... Either change the skill requirement, or change the actual skill needed to train TD...
For PvP? Sure, a cap booster is nigh on essential sadly, though I do wish CCP would nerf cap boosters hand-in-hand with nerfing Nos. For PvE though, where a sustainable tank is desired and carrying cap charges is just plain inconvenient, then EM V is just too damn useful. Even in PvP, having a bigger cap pool means that maybe you don't need to use as many of your limited number of 800 charges in a particular fight, meaning you can have one more engagement before having to restock. It's all useful.
No it isn't. Take my Dominix for example - even with all cap skills to 5 there's no way I'm getting two LAR 2's to perma-run on that. Far easier to fit 3x CCC rigs and be cap-stable.
So why would I train EM5, if I can already do what I need with EM 4 and spend roughly the same amount of time training something more useful like DI 5 to speed up my ratting?
And at any rate - no one is going to use heat for PvE.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 15:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: James Duar
And at any rate - no one is going to use heat for PvE.
No kidding? I'd never have worked that out if you hadn't told me.
Some of us PvPers do however do PvE to make cash to buy our shiny ships and mods for PvP. PvP and PvE are not mutually exclusive.
And you might notice that part where I pointed out that your statement that you "need" EM5 for that is incorrect to.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 15:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: James Duar
And at any rate - no one is going to use heat for PvE.
Why not? It's not like nobody's ever had a "do or die" situation happen while ratting or mission running.
That's true, but I think it's safe to say that Heat is far more a PvP thing than a PvE one.
I would use Heat in PvE if it helped me get out of one of the numerous cluster ****s I get myself into on lvl4'w . I don't see it as a PvP only feature at all.
PvE is very much about sustainability, which is pretty much the antithesis of heat. Couple that to the chance based mechanic, and you'd be doing pretty poorly to depend on it in any way for PvE. Or more accurately - if you're tank is not holding, using Heat will probably just get you killed faster when your reppers blow up.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 15:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: The Judge
Simple arguement is that we needed to train that skill, so why should new players not have to train it as well ?
If you didn't start the game 4 years ago as well, then guess who's fault that is ...
Besides you're arguing over a skill that is actually quite useful and only takes a few weeks to train, i want to train carrier 5 and it takes nearly 2 months and you don't see me whining about it.
I see a ship costing 20 billion ISK, requiring POS's to build and generally the backing of an alliance able to defend the space its in for long enough to do that. Do you think that perhaps, just maybe, there's a vast difference between the benefits conferred by a mothership proportionally, and the benefits heat is going to confer?
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 00:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: James Duar on 21/06/2007 00:53:32
God, training EM5 does not make Heat a unique specialization. You know what it does do? Deletes EM 5 as a unique specialization.
EM 5 is now a pre-requisite of an entire set of game mechanics that can be applied to every module. If Heat is remotely useful, then EVERYONE will train it.
The god damn 'vets' complaining that they've already invested the training time don't get it - EM 5 as a pre-req for something that may become a "required" skill cheapens that SP investment, because everyone will go for it. You don't gain any unique advantages by being one of the few who trained it as SP level X.
The only reason people with EM 5 advocate heat staying at that pre-req is because they hope it'll keep everyone else out and they'll gain their "I WIN" button over much of the playerbase. Wrong. As everyone's pointed out - it's not that long. If it's such a good advantage, then everyone will have it and you'll be rather unspecial, ununique and unspecialized.
Like everything else in this game, the % based stat boosters are proportional compared to the ship class you fly. Engineering 5 isn't truly useful till you're almost in Battlecruisers/Battleships because it's a % boost to Powergrid - you get more absolute benefit when you start off with more grid.
Similarly, EM 5 is more useful on larger ships, where as Energy Systems Operation (I might have picked the wrong name - the % cap recharge boost skill) is going to be more useful on frigates overall etc. etc.
Heat, is a whole new bag of tricks due to the way it works, but whatever benefits it confers, there is no reason for it to be EM 5 when it is such a general purpose skill. Yes EM 5 is general, but it competes with other skills compared to just EM 4. Except if Heat magically turns out to be useful and it becomes an absolute must have, and a worthless timesink as opposed to a specialization one can elect to have.
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 02:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Anehra
Originally by: Na'Kunni
Originally by: Anehra
It's fine as it is.
I have a 2 years old
That's where i stopped reading
Nice, you just lost all the respect you could've had. I put some time into a brief and constructive post, if you can't read that, you just define yourself as a troll and a whiner.
No, you opened by declaring you were an older character. Given that this debate centers rather heavily on blindly giving an advantage to older characters and widening the gap between new and old players more, you might like to choose a stronger point to open on then "I've been playing this game for X years..."
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 02:40:00 -
[13]
None of what you said has any bearing on whether EM 5 is a sensible pre-req for something as general as Heat.
EM 5 is a choice you make to specialize. By making it a pre-req for a very general skill, that specialization is gone.
Also, Drones is not a level 5 skill and the fact you have a 3rd character means you're min/maxing it.
Pre-req skills for something that may or may not be an absolute necessity generally results in a huge reduction in the value of the pre-req because everyone else has it. And the only value of this is to increase the time it takes a new character to be able to do fun things in the game, and thus increasing the divide between the new and the old.
|
| |
|